Aoun: The US is against me (Part 2)

Aoun: The US is against me (Part 2)

A. It"s either them [the US] or another country. They are certainly under the influence of Western countries, and not just the US. But there"s coordination between the West, the US and Arab countries. There is regional and international pressure on us regarding the presidency.
We represent the independence line, and they don"t acknowledge our true strength, or that we represent true independence. Instead they just say we are Syria or Iran, which is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Q. General Aoun, does American want to punish you because of your excellent stances with Hezbollah?
A. Certainly, and some regional countries lack the courage to support us because they"re given in. We are defending ourselves, and our steadfast people are the best weapon.
Q. So America wants to corner you?
A. Not just America. Arab states, European states as well. [They are] not just against us, but against the pro-independence line. Since I am a leading figure in this group, they are certainly against me. They are not embarrassed by this. Even Western envoys told me "the Americans are against you. We cannot solve the problem".
The US ambassador here said if Aoun breaks his ties with Hezbollah, he"ll be the presidential candidate of consensus. My answer was clear and concise: "I prefer national unity to the presidency." I prefer being in step with the domestic pro-independence front to being a president separated from his popular base and national goals.
Q. General Aoun, you said those people in power are irresponsible. There is too much corruption in the government. Are those people in power corrupt people?
A. Certainly… without naming names, the government has run away from launching a financial investigation into squandering from the Treasury. There are many people involved.
Q. Is Mr. Hariri a corrupt man?
A. I can"t accuse anyone… But Hariri hasn"t been in office. But the current government is like a board of directors, and not a Lebanese government.
The direct responsibility lies with the official, and Hariri hasn"t been in office, he"s been an MP. The ministers who are corrupt can"t say Hariri was responsible. If that person isn"t actually signing things, the person responsible is the minister or prime minister, and the investigation will reveal what"s happened. There are sensitive areas, and we need an investigation to determine responsibility.
Q. Is Mr. Jumblatt a corrupt man?
A. Jumblatt has had many problems… perhaps his responsibility has become publicly known and he said it himself once; he was in a corner and mentioned bribery, and that he evades taxes, and keeps two sets of accounting books, one showing a loss, for the state, and the real one, kept in his safe. That"s what he"s said, not us.
Can you try someone for what he"s said?
Q. I met Mr. Jumblatt recently. I asked him why he doesn"t speak to General Aoun. He told me, "General Aoun is a man who has no honor". I asked him why? He said, "When student troops invaded the palace in 1990, he escaped in a military vehicle and left behind his wife and three children."
A. I think Walid Jumblatt"s lying. In 2004, I think Rene Alain, the French ambassador here, told al-Hayat newspaper about the details of the October 13, 1990. I have a document in French, translated, from 1990, which says the French invited me to the embassy to discuss a ceasefire. You can call Alain and ask him, in France, where he"s mayor. I still have the authorization document.
Q. Why does Mr. Jumblatt hate you?
A. There is a popular saying, "affection comes in different types," while maybe hatred is more general. It has to do with his egocentrism and how no one else is good in his eyes.
Q. He is the only good man in the country?
A. Yes, although he says things, that he killed and stole, he demands to be thought better than others.
Q. So Walid Jumblatt is a killer and criminal?
A. He said that. He was asked once about what happened to the people he"d detained. He said he killed them all. He was asked about Lebanon being run by titans of money, and he said he was one of them that he didn"t pay taxes. And he told you that he"d lied to the Syrians for 25 years. I am not saying this, he is.
Q. After all that he said against you, you are ready to meet with this man and build trust and confidence?
A He"d have to do many things before we trust him
Q. What does he have to do?
A. If he agrees, he"d have to stick to an agreement. This is important. This is a problem between him and the Lebanese people. There are 70,000 - 80,000 displaced from his region, and only 17% have returned, after 25 years.
Money was paid, but it didn"t go to the return of the displaced. This requires the will of the state and of Walid Jumblatt to be corrected.
Q. You seem like such a peaceful man but when I interviewed him he said "I am not going to put my hand with people accused of murder. "
A. I think this is the case for me, not him. He was talking about me, not the other way around.
When he wants to say "murder" he should be specific. He"s confessed to it but I haven"t killed anyone. If there"s a crime he should charge me. I think he"s not courageous enough to say who I"ve killed. As a fighter and officer, in the army, I experienced all phases of battle. I"m a military man…he should remember when we had him under siege in Beirut, I sent soldiers to take him in a jeep, so that he wouldn"t be treated violently.
They asked him where he wanted to go, these were my orders, and he went. I could have thrown him into prison.
Q. And you did not do this?
A. Yes, this was in September 1983 at his home in Mosaytebeh.
Q. General Aoun, what"s your problem with the Head of the Lebanese forces, Samir Geagea?
A. A different political path and method of behavior... He"s the opposite of me.
Q. Listen to what he said on the Christmas Eve: he said Michel Aoun pollutes rejoicing of the Lebanese, are you a polluter according to what he said? You pollute and you prevent people from rejoicing on the New Year eve. They did not enjoy their Christmas because of you Michel Aoun. This is what he said.
A. What did I do? To make accusations like that, if we had a state and a judiciary…these accusations should be turned over to the judiciary. These aren"t responsible people. They"re talking nonsense. This goes against my nature. How could I prevent people from enjoying their holiday?
Q. He said because of your absurd theories.
A. This would prevent them form being happy? It would probably entertain them, they"d laugh about it. A guy could entertain people all night by talking about me.
Q. You always accuse the ruling coalition of getting involved in a plot to settle the Palestinians in Lebanon. Do you have anything to prove this accusation?
A. The Palestinian issue is a permanent issue in Lebanon. The Palestinians have been here for 60 years and in the Taif Accord there is a paragraph that reads: "no settlement, partition or division"
However since then the government and particularly Siniora and the current ruling group which has been in power since 1992 have done nothing about this issue.
If there is no progress on the issue the Palestinians will be considered actual residents in Lebanon and the matter will be over. There should be movement on this issue that is holding political activities to achieve the right of return for the Palestinians.
Second, there was a policy begun by the late Prime Minister Rafiq al-Hariri.
During a meeting in Qoraytem, on 17 December 2000, he told his advisors that "settlement has been imposed on us and there is no way to get out of it."
Therefore the country"s interests lies in further indebtedness, since there will be a bill for this
settlement - the compensation to be paid for this. Since then, Lebanon"s debt has grown, and these debts are growing - we are drowning in debt.
So, first: Lebanon is borrowing money.
And second: the right of return.
Recently Bush said in Palestine that he will compensate Palestinian refugees and he didn"t mention the right of return at all.
Q. Can you show me what you"re holding in your hand?
A. This is a document - there is a copy of it at Lebanon"s General Security Department, containing information about the meeting I"ve just mentioned. Borrowing is the interest of Lebanon, since settlement will be paid for with compensation.
Q. And this is a secret document?
A. In principle, these are public records.
Q. Is it top secret?
A. It is not top secret.
Q. Can I just have a look please? The document reads: "top secret"
A. At that time.
Q. So Michel Aoun has a top secret document that proves that the ruling coalition is involved in a plot to settle the Palestinians in Lebanon.
A. General Security has this information and I receive a copy of it in the mail. A citizen sent the info in the mail and this document has a number.
Q. So the Patriarch has been involved in a plan to settle the Palestinians in Lebanon, do you agree with him?
A. I haven"t seen Suleiman Franjieh to ask him about it, whether he has documents or if this is a reading of the Patriarch"s policy, because there"s been silence about this since 1990.
So I won"t say anything until I see my friend and ask him about it. But the patriarch"s silence on this has been strange. And not just him - no one has responded to Bush. Prime Minister Siniora responded but very timidly.
When I talked about settlement very harshly, Siniora criticized me for trying to show him up. It appears today that I was correct.
Q. Your ally Suleiman Franjieh said that the Patriarch is an employee at the American embassy, do you agree with him?
A. This is a language issue; a politician who is completely committed to something might be described in this way. Like when they accused me of things. This is like a conclusion people reach.
Q. Does the Patriarch hold a grudge against you General? Maybe because you"re allied with the Hezbollah, or because of your problems in the past with him
A. I don"t ask whether people like me or not. I ask whether I should be doing something for them or not or ask if I"m doing something wrong against them. If they like me or not, this is their problem. I"m doing my duty according to my conscience and convictions and take on the responsibility. People might hate me or like me but this is a result of public life. You always have people who like you or don"t like you.